Deep Cover: The Real Donnie Brasco
Deep Cover: The Real Donnie Brasco

Episode 41 · 2 months ago

S3 Ep6: Tony Conti Exit Tapes - Lefty's Goose Chase

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The Tony Conti saga comes to an end. In this episode, Leo Rossi and Joe Pistone take us through several different tapes that meticulously details the quick, but life-threatening, downfall of Tony Conti (undercover FBI agent) following an incident with the Balistrieri family. 

In Joe’s attempt to cover for his partner’s disappearance after being pulled from the investigation, Joe as Donnie Brasco takes a necessary and calculated trip to Milwaukee in search of the supposed wannabe wise guy. With Lefty Ruggiero hot on his trail, Donnie fabricates his findings. Then, the sobering event ends with an impromptu late-night meeting between the two and mob boss, Mike Sabella.

Episode Notes:

[00:00] Intro with Leo Rossi and Joe Pistone

[01:08] TAPE: Where is Tony Conti? Joe dictates letter about Lefty Ruggiero and Tony’s meeting for Jules Bonavolonta of the FBI (10/10/1978 at 9:30pm)

[05:37] How was Conti in real life? Did he really have a relationship with three women?

[07:42] Everybody’s Joe

[08:37] Frank Balistrieri’s girlfriend was disrespected and Mike Sabella vouches for everyone

[12:42] At the heart of it all is greed: Balistrieri to Trafficante

[13:45] Conti beats the scam; disappears in Milwaukee

[15:32] Donnie offers Lefty $500 from a “score” or bet

[18:25] Lefty calls Donnie for a mysterious late night meet

[20:24] TAPE: Donnie and Lefty discuss the search for Tony Conti’s car in Milwaukee

[24:52] Lefty talks about a $7,000 contractor for a fast food restaurant

[27:17] TAPE: Donnie tells Lefty that Conti’s car is impounded by the cops

[30:44] Lefty Ruggiero does not play about his money

[33:26] TAPE: Donnie plants the idea that Tony Conti was whacked; Lefty pushes back

[38:44] TAPE: Lefty gives Donnie final search locations for Tony; tells him to make a restaurant reservation at 12am at night

[42:11] Joe Pistone says that dinner would later become a vital part of the investigation

[43:17] TAPE: Donnie presents Lefty with the potential car tag belonging to Tony Conti

[45:45] Lefty’s never asleep

[46:23] Joe Pistone explains how answering difficult questions can be life or death; sign off until next time

We all love mob movies, Scarface, The Godfather. The list goes on and on, but there's one movie that speaks to me more than all the others, Donnie Brasco. It's actually based on a true story, and you know what they say, truth is stranger than fiction. I'm Leo Rossi. I've spent my life behind and in front of the camera creating stories about the Mob. We're going to go off the page and talk to the real life Donnie Brasco. This is deep Cover, the real Donnie Brasco with Job Stone and Leo Rossi. Ah, this is Leo Rossi in deep Cover, the real Donnie Brasco with the real Donnie Brasco, Joseph deep Stone, Joe, good morning, Good morning, Leo. How are you today? Do you know what I'll tell you? I'm kick ass today, Joe. I'm ready to tackle this. We are going back to the tapes that Joe has secured of his time when he was in deep cover with the five Mafia families and bosses of other families. The first one will be you dictating a letter to Jules Bonava Love and that is your handler. He is in charge of the operation. Correct, Joe and this is what you are saying about Lefty guns Is and Tony Conte, which is an undercover FBI agent. This is that whole backdrop of where is Tony Conti. I'm leaving enough to you for period paragraphs and everything else. On October ten, at approx pm, A s A. Joseph B. Pistone also known as Donald Brasco, while operating in an undercover capacity, met with Benny Lefty Ruggerio at Lenz l y n n S Restaurant on Street between First and New York Avenues, New York City. Period. The meeting was in reference to Tony Conti in his relationship with a girlfriend of Frank Balistrari of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Period. Virgerio was worried that Conti had insulted Balustraari by making advances to one of Balustraari's girlfriends. Period. Virgerio stated that Mike Sabella was also annoyed and that Ruggerio and Sabella were embarrassed by the situation since they had brought Conti to Balustrary and introduced him for the purpose of being a business partner of Balustrari and representing Sabella and Ruggerio. Period paragraph Roggerio vised that he wanted the Stone to go to Baltimore, Maryland and check in the county's background to see if he had a reputation of fooling around with the ladies. Period. Ruggerio stated he needed this information for when he got called in to explain Conti's relationship with the ladies. Period paragraph Viggerio stated that the last time Conti was in New York City, he Ruggerio lectured him for two hours regarding getting friendly with ladies when he was in wise guy places. Period Rggerio stated that Conti bought drinks for three ladies one night in Marco's, and Ruggerio lectured him for doing this. Period paragraph for Jerry also stated...

...that Conti wanted to be a wise guy. Period. Viggerio stated that a wise guy would not insult and embarrassed anotherwise guy's girlfriend. Period paragraph. Viggerio stated that one thing you never do is insult a boss. Ruggerry advised that he felt that with all the proper information regarding Conti's background, he could salvage the situation. In Milwaukee. Vigerio continued that Mike Sabella stated to him that insulting someone's wife or girlfriend was worse than being a rat or pimp. Rogeria was given the sum of five hundred dollars, which was supposed to be his end from a score that s. A. Stone had pulled in California. Okay. I got a general question, Joe, in your time, uh six years deep cover, how many of those do you think who committed to tape? I mean four or five a week or once a week or oh several leo. My thought process was ione I only dictated what I thought was important information, either for intelligence purposes that we didn't have intelligence on or evidentiary value to use in the courtroom. But I dictated a lot of those, and everything was was dictated. I didn't commit any myself. I did not commit anything to paper that was prearranged, pre arranged, dictated on the telephone. Yeah yeah, well, um, you know it's it's good. And you did go with the grammar and the paragraphs and all. That was night not bath of a kid from Pattison, you know, Pattison, New Jersey. Now this Tony County, Okay, undercover agent. Correct, let me ask you he's this Did he really have a liaison with these ladies or were they plants. Were they undercover plants? No, he had no liaison with any ladies. You know, it's like anything else you're out and it's it's it's part of his cover. We were in a restaurant, Uh, there were three ladies dining alone. So he just sent over drinks. That was That was it. I mean, there was no no conversation with him, just you know, call a waiter over, hey, you know, send those three ladies over some drinks. That was it. And that thing blew up to his integrity. You know, he was a ladies man. And you guys planted that after, like you said, a meeting that wasn't planned with three ladies, say, he said over drinks, that's all. But you guys capitalized on that to get him out of his undercover role. Yeah, yeah, sure we did. And and then and if you recall, capitalized on the are weak, capitalized on a on a art heights that took place in Chicago, right, you did that too. Yeah, so that gives you street cred, right exactly? Wow? Um, and it really outside of the one time that Tony conti uh slipped and called you Joe, which could have been curtains for everybody. He was a pretty sharp guy too. Huh. Oh, he was one of the best. I mean I worked other undercover operations with Tony and uh he was. He was one of the best undercovers that that we had, you know. And he was a pretty hefty guy. Uh former marine uh rugged. Uh. And he was a good, good talker. You know. He just had a brain freeze at one time. That's all we all get him. That's a for our...

...listeners are loyal listeners. You note that is new listeners. Joe was driving in a car with Lefty two guns, with Jerio and Tony Conti, and they're in Milwaukee and they're driving around looking and all of a sudden, you know, he's going Donnie and Donnie and go yeah Donnie and and he all of a sudden came up and said, yeah, Joe, you remember now, Lefty? Yeah, I mean he picked right up on it. He picked right up on it. And then, uh, what did our dear friend Tony Conti do? He kept using Joe all the time all night. Hey Joe, how are you at that? At they take a booth at a restaurant that a waiter, Hey Joe, what's on the men? It worked? Joe he said that that's the new thing in Milwaukee's Everybody's Joe. Everybody's Joe. You created that. Um so the couple your coppo leftis Apo Sabella, right, Mike Sabella, that's correct, Mike Sabella. He would like to probably whack the two of you when this thing surface that maybe Blastari's girlfriend was hit on. Well, yeah, because you know, don't forget Leo. All this is about money and being married to the bella Strary's you know, to my family is married together. Splitting illegal profits. Now it cuts us out, and plus it makes it makes Mike look bad. You know, his uh, his prestige, as Lefty would say, is harmed, all right, and yeah, and he looks bad to his igher ups and on and on. Yeah, you know, it goes down the line. I look bad to Lefty. Lefty looks bad to Mike. Mike looks bad to the boss, to the underboss, to the Consigliary. Because don't forget, I take the deal to Lefty. Lefty takes a deal of Mike sa Ella. Mike Sabella takes the deal to the underboss, and then you know, then to uh to the Consigliari and then Bananos have to get in touch with Chicago, so you you know, you involved the Chicago family. Then the Chicago family gets in touch with Balustralia Milwaukee. So now you've got three families decided whether the Bonanos can go to can go to Milwaukee and get into a relationship with with the Milwaukee family. All right, So now I'm not real bright, but here Mike Sabella says to Lefty, I'm um, you know, out of my imagination, so does Donnie, I mean, Donnie we he's he's us, right, I mean he's with us. I mean you trust him and Sid yeah, no, trust him. Then when Sabella goes to the underboss, he's gonna ask the same questions this guy Donnie you know him? Yeah, no, Donny oh Sunny left the yeah, and that he's got to go sell you to the Conciliati. And then the boss gives yeah, I mean I knew, I mean I knew all these people before, but he still had a silly idea that it was a good idea and that uh that they trusted that you know, we had to sell Tony basically, so I had a sell Tony to Lefty that left he had a sell Tony me and left. He then had to sell Tony to Mike and up the chain. So we all, you know, we had a sell Tony. You know what it's like, Uh if some people think, uh cosa Nostra was loose fitting, they had their shade in command. And then oh yeah, you had to do it, my god. And then when it went south, we had to tell Mike Sabella and then we had and then we had to have a sit down with Mike. So we you know, we go to Cassabella, which was Mike's restaurant down a little Lily.

I've been there. We go upstairs and uh in the rooms upstairs, and now, you know, you gotta you gotta be very careful to have to explain to him what happened. And we've got to convince him that Tony didn't screw up with somebody in the He didn't himself, Frankie didn't himself, Frank's sons. It wasn't because he was full around with the hostess in Frank's restaurant, hotel. And then I don't know if you remember this, but Mike was mad. Mike was he was piste in fact our punishment. I don't know if I if you Remember this was back as I said, for the listeners, I love that our punished it was we couldn't go to the Christmas party. Well, Joe, Joe, you got what you deserve. You can probably spend Christmas then with your family, you know. Um. But but really at the heart of this is greed. I mean the money that they thought the bananas could make, you know, in the Midwest with the Bolish thraries, that's what propelled everything. It's all it's all about making money. I mean, you know, the same thing when we went to Florida, you know, to hook up with traffic canty. All they see in front, you know, they all they see your dollar signs, you know, they see Benjamin's That's all they're looking at. Yeah, I mean, you know they're One thing I've learned talking to you over all this time, is there always looking for the next scam and the next score. It could be Sunday at midnight, it could be Thursday at six am. They're always looking always for the next score. How can we how can we make money? And you personally were there sometimes six am Thursday morning or midnight on Sunday for ever you had to be to propel it now are we getting close to seeing uh, Tony Conte exiting the scam? Yeah? Well, I mean he's out now. Because we didn't know what the hell was going on, and we didn't know if if the Balustraias were out to whack them or why they you know, why they cut ties with him, So we had to make them disappear. That's when I went through the host charade of going to Milwaukee saying I was looking for him. Oh, we'll we'll go blow by blow on that, Joe, blow by blow. You wouldn' left that's coming up. But that's where you had to get rid of Tony Conte. He did his job and everything, and you know the fact, did the Balustrari's whack them because they're not in contact with you anymore? Did they find out he was an undercover? Who knows? Yeah, that's where we're worried about, you know, But I mean we knew that the We knew that they didn't whack him because you know, I'm in contact with him. But why why did they break contact with him? You know? Did they find out he was he was an FBI agent? Did he think he was a cop? Uh? That somebody right him out? Was there a leak somewhere. But you know, then it comes down to me. If they tell the Benano's that they think that he's a cop, then they come to me, Hey, you said you noticed guy for ten years. You're telling us you know him for ten years and you don't know he was a cop. So you know, everything everything rolls as they say, the s hi rolls downhill, right, yeah, and it could end you being rolled up interrupted exactly that That's what yeah, man oh man. Also he mentions in there some scam where Left he got five hundred that you set up. Jerry was given the sum of five hundred dollars, which was supposed to be his end from a score that stone At pulled in California. What was that about?...

You remember? Well? I told Left, you know, to calm him down. I told him that had when I was out in the l a, I had pulled a score and this was his end for the score, because you know, every time you do a score, you gotta give your guy a piece of the action. So does he grill you what the score was? No? I mean he knew was He knew I was a jewel thief, so so it had to be a jewel hight. Yeah, and uh so you gave him five hundred. Did he ask for more? Uh? Well, he's always asking for more, But you know he was asking a tough nut here because I you know, I mean, look, I had to play the part of a street guy. I didn't played a part of a mark. A lot of times undercovers think that every time that the guy that they would asked or something, they got to give it to him or they gotta keep feeding them cash. Well, I didn't play it that way. I played like I was. You know, I was a street hustler, and I'm gonna give you what I'm gonna give you. You know you might ask for I'm not gonna tell you I made three thousand on a score because you're gonna you're gonna want most of that. So if I do a score and it, you know, and it's two hundred thousand, I tell you I made a hundred and fifty. You got to play the game. But that's what your guys killed when they get caught. But you know the one thing about you, knowing you as long as I have, you got a pride about you. You got pride and you know, and you even mentioned to me a couple of times. Hey, it's easy if you just throw the money at them, you know. And again, but that's government's money. There's a responsibility for that. Yeah. But then you lose your you lose all your respect. Yes, you know. I mean it's like and and again. Then they have you as a mark. They don't, they don't confide in you as one of one of their own. You know. It's hey, we've got a mark here. So anytime we need something, we just go, hey, you know, we need we need it. So you were thinking that far down the road you had to yeah, exactly. Yeah. Besides, that's just you your human nature. You like then like to break a few balls there. Yeah, lefty, this is it. Well, you have to, like I said, you have to be a real human being when you're working, when you're working deep cover. Yeah, and I'll tell you this. Um, we got a feeling of what Mike Sabella thinks about a ladies man hitting on a boss's girlfriend. What do you call a rat and a pimp? Yeah, that's okay, that pretty much says it all. I can't go much deeper than that now, you know. Um this these years were in the late seventies, early eighties, right, that restaurant Lens on the purist side. I kind of remember that was that like in Joint. I had never been there prior to that, No, because yeah, I think I had, but it must have been like you know, I mean I may have, but you know, I don't recall, you know, and I never went there after that. We I mean, you had never been there or left before that, and we never went there after that. I mean there were there were some wise guys in there, because remember I told you that when I walked in, I got kind of see these two guys that at the at the bar, right and wondering, you know what the hell you know is? He said, because he said he just got off the plane and he wanted to see you, right, I just got off the plane. Yeah, oh you just got off the plane, right, Yeah. And he says, come in at night. I don't know, Joe. I think I would have said I called Jewels. Now that's one time I that's one time I didn't. I didn't call Jews and tell him what was going on. Wow, he would have he would have said, come home, get out right. Well, he would have said, Look, he would have said, blow it off, you know yeah, well maybe maybe not because you know...

...he's a street guy himself, so well, but it's delicate. I mean, it's delicate. Yeah, you know. I mean I had no I had no surveillance. I hadn't have any you know, uh, anybody watching over him. I mean, if they stake the place out, you know, that's one thing, but you're still could get whacked inside, you know. Yeah yeah, all right, Um, that handled that particular tape based on what you set to Jewels and uh or recorded for jewels and we see how you know, very meticulous so that when he transcribes it, it's all there for the record. Yeah. Well, well you have to remember is that everything you say eventually it's going to come out in the court, you know, once you go to trial. Leo, let me ask you a question. Did you mention about becoming a friend of ours and the Motion Lounge? Oh okay, here's the thing. Joe came up with this which you know he keeps keeps right on the game, babe, for you out there are loyal listeners to become a member in the Motion Lounge and then you become a friend of ours, right, Joe ours ours? Correct? Friend of ours? Um? So at the end of this particular episode, we will give you all of the things that you will get by being a member of the Motion Lounge. I think it's time for break, Ley or what are you thinking? You know what, Let's take a break and get back to the tapes. Okay, our loyal listeners, you're about to hear an ad. But if you don't want to hear the ad, join our subscription link in the show notes. Welcome back, everybody, And now we're going to another tape with you and Lefty and it does pertain to you, Tony Conti and what the hell is going on? But yeah, Donny what who? We're going back to Milwaukee. I'll coming back to Malwake and then go back there. Yeah, I said I was gonna go back this morning. You check every airport, every part, all right, listen, I checked everything. I'm going back. You know it's back them over there now right. I talked to that guy. He said that that the car just like the one that you know we're talking about. He said it was told out of there this morning. Donny was told off there this morning, was toed out of the parking lot. All right, So now you're gonna find out way of towing paces and check off it's the car donny. All right, well I am I just wind to all good. I mean, now we've got an idea. Okay, all right, why would a cop be coming out of it? The slarteste did you know the same guy I've been checking what every day and went back this morning. He said that you try to Wisconsin plates. Huh yeah, but he didn't know. He didn't get the tag number, but he described the car and everything, okay before door four door right yeah, but the uh burging the interior right now. Now, you gotta just go find out where the toe hare's gonna drive your car there and you check it right out. So we're gonna find out. I gotta I gotta find total you know why it was told? Told it? All right, you have to find out why it was told. They're gonna reveal that information. Well, I'm gonna find out who told it. Well, it has to be somebody where they put it. They all have one one person to him. I try. We'll find out out. It's very important. I'm dying. You're gonna cold, well, you gotta you gotta come in after the year because the contract and want seven tho dollars. We gotta keep gonna bother it down. At least we get we get two and fifty dollars a week out of it. I need you over here. We gotta keep borrowing. The marshall wants to coose me up. Let me go check out.

At least you know what I could. We're gonna stay with your your care. Yeah, any anyway you can get this money up because the contract or, you know what I do. I put the giant under your name, Joe could promised doing my back the fucking thing because I got it all set up over here. How you think you gotta be? Well, I don't know. I gotta find out what this place is. I don't know this town that well. Well, it's gonna be one tower place. It's gotta be in whin a ten minutes radius. Yeah, it's gonna be some somebody by the airport. You know. If you can get back in the next hour, I'll get back to you that after ten. Over here, I'll wait the lebb and Tidy over here call me back before levon Teddy. I should know Bright then, all right, because you got the car with you right, Yeah, I don't understand. It's motherfucker. Right, I don't know what's going on because that guy wanted his fucking money back at borrow for the cocks out the jewelry. Yeah all, let me find out. Are you calling me for the agein Yeah? Okay, let me take a whild guest here. You weren't in Milwaukee, right, Yeah? Actually I was, Oh you did? Okay? Yeah, well I had a you know, I had I had a uh in case he checked but people yet he was here? Yeah, so Lefty is that thorough obviously that he would have checked with with the thing? Yeah, sure, and not for nothing, Not that I'm surprised, but Lefty didn't show too much sympathy for you having a cold, joke dying, you gotta you gotta come in after that time, are you kidding? It was like he just kept right on moving right past that. We remember right right over, and I did. I had a hell of a cold. But you know what I would. I basically was calling him from from my hotel room. You know, a lot of was bs. You know, he's not gonna he's definitely not coming out. So yeah, but I had to I had to make like I saw people and I had did go talk to people just in case you gotta cover your tracks. Yeah, you didn't want something a little bit of not taking that extra step. You don't want that. No, well no it doesn't pay Yeah, no, no, because this is this is something big. Now the car probably was already turned in by now. Yeah, we had the car. I mean when I say, were the FBI had the car? Yeah, sure I figured that. But then he gets into another thing, Joe, he talks about seven thousand dollars the contractor. We get two fifties the contractor one seven dollars we got keep the leach we get, we get fifty dollars a week. Could you explain that to me? There was a store we opened. There was a fast food takeout chicken store, and uh I was renovating it, you know, old the contractor seven g s for the renovation. And you noticed he said, and Donny, I'll put it in your name. Yeah, just just what I need is this is what I need? Is all that stuff in my name? You know, I said, he's a good guy, this lefty. Oh my god, he just and and the two fifty who is that going to come from? Well? That was that was going to come from a scam with the with the store. It to involve Leo Tool right now, all right, but here's something that I have to think. The store was a little ely or where was it? Yeah it was on Madison Street, I think, yeah town. Now, everybody I would imagine Lefty He'll tell you everybody knows he's Lefty two Guns. This contractor had to be a mental midget or a mob associate to do the work, right. Yeah, Well it was somebody that was hooked up. I mean, you know, of course, right I thought so, Yeah, because a general contractor he would put up you know, on a business side when he's a Lefty covering man. Well, yeah,...

...how are you gonna get your money forget about it? Like like you said, yeah, but I mean you know, he had good ideas going, you know, I mean it probably would have made money, you know, Yeah if Lefty Guns opened it in the neighborhoods, yeah why not? I mean what it was a candy store. I mean it was an operating store that he had. You know, we were just going to convert it into a fast food take out chicken. So you could have been like it could have been Kentucky Fried Chicken. That could have been left He could have Oh god, okay, could we continue the tape please? But dead all right? This guy says it was n't founded by the cops. The cops, Yeah, where where were they putting the cock? Can't you find this out? See if it's his car, that's where we could take it from day you follow me by them? It's probably a third lot. Well, can't you go to cruise around it? Suld be a good anice the car? You want me to do that? Because I will send you back to Milwaukee. Then that's the way I'll come out there. I'll bring you when we gonna tell us to Mike and we tell him everything, all right? You know, I don't know if he wanted me to go around there and not with John do you're not doing anything wrong? I have to find out where a lot is, you know? But he said it was the cops are the ones that had it impounded. Just go complicated for him? Yea, you you're telling me what the hell you know? Why would they want? You know? So? I said, well, well, dinn and everything he says, I don't know. He said, all I know is that, uh so you can trust this guy and maybe you guys setting you up when he set me up for he's you know, he's just a uh but you were in crying about this car at the Copscott. You know he's not you know, he's only he's only a black guy that at the gate. Then he seems, you know, he doesn't seem to be hir right. I don't want you to get no trouble out there because I can't afford you getting any trouble. I don't know this guy. You know, this guy, I'm sure he's a you know, he's a he's a street guy. He's not gonna you know, getting off the information find out it's this car when he got pitch still right, all right, and uh, that's where you can come back here. I'll have to try to get this guy to get to dig up some more infolks to yeah, because you want your back kid. The Marshawards on my giant before. I don't want to brow that giant question to go living until we get started, you know, alright, alright, alright, gotch I want you to be back here, but before the night or the day is over if you get all this information, all right, because maybe you'll go you think you're gonna help you off with this straight. I don't know les Sheena thinking of the morning. Well you think anybody, maybe you can make a move over here because you put up to your name, But I don't want to brow this here. Well, let me find about this car fence. Let's worry about this first, alright, alright, worry about that fright? All right? Like, uh, what time you gotta call me that? Of course? You know, whenever I find out or I'll be home. Well, then I'll keep calling dag at home. All right. We'll make sure you get me right of a dinner time five o'clock, alright, because that's where you get get out in advent. Enough over you keep on trying, I might be on. Maybe I'll change my mind to going down all right, okay, all right? Did he always try to get home to have dinner at five with his family? With his life? I mean, uh, he's he's so many things. But very quick thinking on your part, because um, you are creating, uh for the audience, for me, a visual of what's going down. You have you have to set up here to go to there to check with the towing place to go. But the one thing, Joe, the cops. You can't go to the cops, correct, because that could open a can of worms exactly. And that's where I said the cops, uh you know what I was told the cops towed it. And then it also would fit in when I tell him about the artists in Chicago A right, you know, right? Yeah, so you trade one with the other and you go there. Um. Hey, let it's not his first barbecue with...

...cars being towed and stolen and all that stuff. He has this thing down. You do this, you do that, you do this right exactly. But I just love that he's always thinking about you. What's your girlfriend that kim in on it? You got any money? Yeah, I mean, come on, I don't forget. I gotta I gotta put your name on it, Donny your name? Oh no, no, I mean I'm gonna. I'm gonna stick you with all with all the bills and all that permits. All he cares about is every month. You give him the money every month from the profits. And they can get pretty tough about that too. Right. Oh yeah, what do you get it? You know? I mean, that's it. It's like it's like having money on the street. You know, I got a legitimate business. Go and you're gonna have to you know, all the inspectors in there, and you know, I mean eventually a m off. But yeah, it's still a pain in the ars. No, No, and uh, Lefty through all this still has his he still books his numbers, right, Yeah, sure, yeah, we're we still got the book going for for Nikki the Underboss. Yeah, we'll see. It's just as a point of reference. Now, are the bookies out of business by in large? I don't think so. No, even with all the off track betting and and yeah a lottery glee me, bookies are still in business. Yeah, because then you don't have to report nothing. Yeah you're from Philadelphia. Yeah I know, I know. I just had an incident that I talked to you about and you gave me great advice, as you always do. It's thank god. It's like when I went there one year law school. Everybody was like asking me questions that you know, my cousin. We're so proud of you everything. You know. I was backing out of my driveway and this car comes in here. What the hell do I know? You know, Leo, let me ask you, what's a tour? A tort? A tort is a It's an Italian delicacy you get about Ferrari's very good? Joe set me up, all right? Um, I set a tort not a tar, Yes, yes, a tort is a is a criminal offense. Right else, you went to Villanova. I didn't go to Villanova. Okay, I don't know what at East, but it is either, Joe, so you couldn't. You could have twisted my balls on that one too. Um. All right, as far as this saga with Tony is getting closer and closer to you having to come back, so could we continue please? I'm waiting for your clip. All right, you give me a note. He shut me home. I don't know what's going on, but I don't like it. I went around. I don't like it. I don't think this guy's around. I think somebody worked. How do you let me Number one? They got that car? There's positive it's the car was clean, nothing in it. How do you hear that? What do you mean how do I know that? Well? I don't know the car clean. I'm explaining to guy over there now. By the time you probably I got told me you talked to the guy. What do you mean the car? What guy? The guy that the car lock guy, the guy there. He went around, you know, he did some masking around everything. He said, there was nothing in the car. The car was clean. And I said, well, why did they tow it? You know, did they brush it down? You print? You know, did I brush it down a finer print? I don't know what That's what I'm talking about. How could say that you've just wake up? What the hell's the guy cleaned up the car for? You do nothing in it? The cars or clean. There wasn't none of my clothes nothing.

I asked that guy. Was there anything in the car? He said, the car was cleaned out. But that don't mean that we're talking about were there if there was a priest. They're the ones that that that they took it to the spice up to you before you give me the rest of the conversation, because when they do that, they put a circle around the car. But they printed up the car. Was this take place now when I was there? No? Did he that? Well? He didn't know, he said, but he said the cops were offering, and the cops were there, and you know what they were when they towed it away and everything that they had. He said, they had the detectives there okay, you know they were in the car and the trunk. He said, they were you know, inside and pulled the seats. Uh, they didn't. When they went to everything, he said, you come back and director, Mike, that's you know, that's it. But you know what's this car? You've seen the car? I know it was his car. How do you know? Where do you see it? We mean I see it? Did you see the car? No? I did see it. How could you say you know? If the guy explained the guy the guy that described the card to a T described the card to a t. This guy gonna buy that. He won't buy it. Believe me, My friend won't buy that. Oh he want me to. I don't know, right, I say, the car is day. You should have I told you the past that the priests, this guy didn't know where the where they brought what comments have to tell you to find it out? You should have found it out. You should have found it out. Down we're gonna want you to get into trouble. But the idea why you were there. You could you can shop around? You want me to go ride ball? Show me you support the go that that they could? You come right back up to the earth but the question guys find out what's going on. When you said maybe he got whacked, I could detect the alarm and Lefty's voice. How do you know? It's like, wait a minute, if he gets whacked, it ain't a good thing for anybody, right exactly, because the only people are gonna whack him are gonna be the bellastras of course, so why they're whacking him? Yeah, and he I mean, he was in that. You could just tell. But why would you say that done? Well? Why would you say that he's hoping against hope? Right? Yeah, Now it's very interesting how he goes. You know, was it brush down? Was? Did they brush it down? He knows the routine? Do he certainly does that, he says, when they do circle around the coffee, Yeah, they put the circle on the donny the circle. He knows the routine, but I mean not his first barbecue. When it comes to cars and stole it and everything else, he says something very in fatty. My guy won't buy that, as Mike Sabella, as Mike Sabella the copy, right, he won't buy that, and we better come up with something. That's when he says, did you see the car? No? How could you say, you know, explained the guy that described the card to a t that the priest. So did you co eyebawl something that wasn't there or what? No, But you know that's why I kept telling to look the guy. The guy described the card with t everything in it. They searched it. You know. It actually surprised the little hell out of me when you said, oh my god, I don't think this guy's around. I think somebody worked. I went, oh Jesus, you know, um, but it was it certainly put up his tenticals. Okay, so we're getting to the end of the Tony County side. Thank you. Check this place out, all right? Well wait, wait, wait, take it easy, don't say all right, but I want you in tonight. Well I got no clue, you know, Danny, for you what we're gonna here.

We'll reduce something for you, all right, Are you gonna stand you? I'll check it on the knock for you. He called your mother. I ain't gonna move with dry hire for you and make sure it's the car. And make sure it's the car. And then you and I have dinner and by Mike the eight to night or tomorrow afternoon and that's it, all right, you're going to Johnson. We'll get your clothes, and ain't worried about that. But I got no stuff. You're gonna get away with it, all right, because bullshit, you've got to come mesterkind I want to pay number, because now we're got to check things out. And it's one other thing where I got checking out. Don't think I'm asleep. He's got a credit card. It goes to a marrying gadger. He paid up, He paid these taps with these different places. He's right, okay, so I'm not asleep. I'm probably I say, you take care why you are. Wait the couple of hours, but meanwhile, make a reservation. It's uh and after four and after three, make it for six o'clock your time, and you commit to New York at eight nine o'clock tonight. Okay. He's a pushy guy. He just laid out your itinerary to say the least you go there, that that two hours your cup. Then you go here and you're back, and it's like okay, and and these are like orders. He's barking out their orders. So yeah, go to the pound, make sure it's the car, go check out his house, his his apartment. Go check out the the office you know where he where he Uh, he had the business. He's Joe, he had I started laughing when you said I got no clothes. He would have made you committed your jockey shorts exactly because I told him my clothes were in you know, my suitcase was in Tony's car. Now and then he you know, as as Lefty is as he is, he said the credit card, credit card different problem is that right? If there's any charges, yeah, you know, check with the credit card company, and if there's any charges on there, we know he's still alive. Yeah. This whole setup is so beautiful in that you know, it may sound We've got a few laughs out of it and all, but what you're doing as an agent is you are setting up your case. And all of the tapes and all of the things substantiated with the tapes, they all play into getting the beds. You know, Leo, when I go in, I don't know if if they had talked to about Astraris or not. Oh, I'm flying into New York line. I'm meeting him at twelve o'clock at night at you know, at that bar restaurant, not knowing if they already talked to Abolistrata. Of course, it's you know, it's the betrayal of everything, of the whole life. But like you had said, you talked, If you would have talked to Jules, he probably would have nixed that jewels being your handler. Uh the balistis that's interesting to this day. Do you know why they pulled out yet? They incriminated themselves, right, oh yeah, they all went to jail. Yep. Yeah, we got convictions out there, sure did so. That dinner that they had with you and then you went to the fancy restaurant and the whole family was there. The ballastraries in Milwaukee. They were tying the noose around their neck. Yeah yeah, yeah, wow, Okay, could we hit the tape again please? I hear the number the card that they took out there, j X chef. We could check it out. That's the one, you know. I was just thinking about maybe called the car agency if they would...

...tell us they want colors. Nothing. But you're seeing the card. Yeah, it looks like the same car. And that's a tag. Um. I don't remember his tag, but the car looks exactly the same car. You Yeah, that's how I got to tag them j X. You know white school. He was a board door right right, board door had built built in paper, built in the CP and everything. I couldn't see. No, I don't want you to see that. The color that what was the top? All right? Yeah? And the inside was like good burgend. I don't know. I couldn't answer that question. That's the car handle it well if you I can't understand why you say that everything was empty out of it. That's the guy told me. He was there when they were looking at when they went through the whole car. He said there was nothing in it. Said there was nothing in the car when they went through it. Unless you just got pinched down. What do you do? All the stuff? They complisicate everything. They complisicate everything. You got to play number right, come on it all right? Uh, when I get get off the phone, I don't call up the find what time you're coming in. I won't know where exactly because I can call this guy up. You know the available fight as what time? The five time to four? You can make a five o'clock fight because you gotta close right, I'm not so you're right by the airport, right, yeah, So let's take a five o'clock fight out all right, now called me back fight you're taking all right? Don't ever forget? Don't do you think left he's asleep? Never, No, Lefty's never asleep. Man. So I was thinking, and you you're throwing stuff out there. The license plate? Was that the car that they had? Yeah? That was that was the plate? Yeah? Oh good, okay, yeah, I got a little scared for you about it. Um. And then when he says he got pinched me and arrested that that still wouldn't have got you out of the jam, would it with Balistrari? Or maybe it would all the fans if you get if he got pinched, Uh it buy some time, you know, yeah, until we proved that he didn't get pinched, and uh no, that's that's great. Look, this is uh what the audience are listening audience. It goes to show these guys are suspicious and they question you on everything, and you had answers, Baby, you had answers. Well you're better because your life depends on it. You know this is not, you know, a show and tell it that could end well without a doubt. Okay, um, thank you our audience out there. Joe thank you for explaining things, because as usual, Lefty Gun takes you north south east west. But the one thing that I feel vindicated for you is that you make him nuts and that you had to take some pleasure, big pleasure, pleasure. All right, I'll see you buddy, all right, Leo, I'll take care until next time. Until next time, thanks for listening to this episode of deep Cover. Get behind the scenes conversations, access to Joe's full tapes, add free video episodes, and a m as with Joe and Leo for just five a month. Visit deep Cover podcast dot com slash subscribe for more information. Deep Cover is produced by jam Street Media executive producers Mattie Stout and Quinn Greenhouse, thanks to executive producer John Moser at MBB Management and Rudy Solo at Rudecat Entertainment. From jam Street Media,.

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